But... which was better offroad?

"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori) 04/12/2018 at 11:21 • Filed to: Disco Inferno, Oklahoma Adventure Trail

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As per our usual, we showed up to the Oklahoma Adventure Trail, East, with an odd collection of cars. They’re all similar to each other in different ways, but in all were pretty different.

2016 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk

Modifications: Aftermarket rock rails, aftermarket roof box, aftermarket jerry can holders

The “Brave Little Toaster” kept up with the two ladder frame four-wheel-drive vehicles it was with, never got stuck, and only major damage could have happened to anyone. The steep grades, water, and complicated terrain posed no real issues for the Jeepers.

That said, the aftermarket rock rails saved its bacon on more than one occasion and the Renegade was the only vehicle to have clearance issues while going over the most severe of the rocky areas, though a lot of that might have had to do with loading.

I still maintain the Jeep is a good vehicle. Its traction control (we call it “angry weedeater mode”) works very well, especially in sandy and rocky environments, the recovery points are better than any other vehicle on this trip, and it gets decent gas mileage.

On the downside, the Renegade lacks an actual transfer case, instead relying on the 9-speed automatic to provide sufficient low range. This would be fine... if the gearing was set up in a way that better emulated low range. In reality it just means it has a single low gear, 1st, and the rest are like any other gas saving autotragic.

Further, despite its large displacement, the 2.4L Tigershark Multiair engine is underpowered in most situations, but especially when going up a steep grade. Despite this, the gas mileage isn’t that great (around 24MPG) and when paired with a woefully tiny gas tank, we find that George has serious range anxiety on these trips. Often, we’ll stop and fill up when the Disco is still at 3/4 of a tank.

Damage: muffler cover removed by rock, muffler skid plate dented by rock, light rock rail grinding, minor belt squeal from mud contamination, minor roof damage from jerry can, one flat tire from screw, moderate pin striping

2015 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Modifications: None

The “Secret XTerra” was the biggest unknown of the trip. Taylor had acquired it only days before he set off and had very few opportunities to test it out. We did take it the Whitewater ORV park for some testing, which helped, but overall he was looking to take a new (to him) car out on an adventure and learn about it on the road.

Unsurprisingly, there weren’t many troubles.

The XTerra soldiered on without complaint through the trip and didn’t really get into any trouble. In fact, I am having a really difficult time finishing this section without boring myself, let alone readers. It just sort of… did it. I guess he kicked a rock once, but didn’t sustain any visible damage.

The Xterra is in impressive little offroader. Most impressive is that it was made in 2015 with a ladder frame, rear diff locks, and a manual transmission. Yup. A manual. In the top trim package. In 2015. Good job Nissan!

It probably helps that the car was designed in 2005 and received only minor updates over its life. But that is fine!

As said previously, we never really felt like we got to the limits of what the Xterra was capable of on this trip, so I can’t really assess its capabilities fully. It certainly took everything we threw at it without complaint, though it did develop some minor belt squeal over the trip... but then again we all did.

That said, I do have some nitpicks about the Xterra. Mostly they made some odd choices with the 4WD system. For one, the rear diff lock only works in low range. Not a big deal as the Xterra also has traction control based pseudo-locking, like the Disco and Renegade, but still a little annoying.

Speaking of traction control, that disables itself when you go into low range. Why? I have no idea. Seems like if you were in low range you’d still want the benefit. Further, traction control can and will stall the vehicle when you’re trying to get un-stuck. Not a big deal as there is a button to disable it, but I feel like with a few software tweaks this could be... better.

So... all that said, the Xterra is an excellent vehicle, both on and off-road, and an amazing value when compared to more desirable off-roaders like the 4Runner.

Damage: minor pin striping

2001 Land Rover Discovery II SE7

Modifications: CDL linkage, ACE Delete, Air Suspension delete

When sitting next to a Jeep Renegade, it is hard to characterize the “Disco Inferno” as the underdog of this trip, but in many ways it was. Mostly in that it was the oldest, by far, and had just been put back on the road days before following a top end rebuild. I’d never done wrenching quite that ambitious and had no idea what to expect from the finished product.

Turns out I didn’t have anything to worry about.

The Disco encountered no issues, started every time, and used no fluids.

I am as shocked as you are.

That said, it wasn’t all sunshine and roses. The Disco is a 17 year old car that has been spending more time offroad than on since I’ve owned it. While the engine performed beautifully, the suspension was certainly objecting to both its past neglect and current mistreatment. Though I inspected the system prior to setting off, it appears my motor mounts are shot (which I knew, but was pretending wasn’t an issue) and my front anti-roll bar is very much in need of new bushings and links. We’ll start there and see what she sounds like.

Also the back door latch got all gummed up and required fiddling to operate, as it tends to under these conditions. Also the rear door seals, despite being in great shape, don’t exactly... seal the car.

Like the others though, it isn’t without its faults. The lower half of the front bumper cover severely limits clearance and approach angles, which is annoying when it is a $900 piece of brittle plastic. Taking a sawsall to it is a common mod, but I’m not quite there yet. Speaking of plastic, as mentioned in my write up, the running boards limit ground clearance and seem to trap mud and debris excessively. Similarly, I could remove them but that would mean sacrificing my mudflaps... which admittedly also decrease clearance.

Also the traction control takes some getting used to and tends to eat the tires a little bit.

That said, aside from my unplanned trip into a field, the Disco never hinted at getting stuck. The heat and AC performed their tasks without complaint. Coolant temps never deviated from normal. Further, the more I drive it the more I realize this is an incredibly competent off-road vehicle.

Damage: belt squeal from mud contamination, moderate pin striping, minor tread loss

So… who did it best?

Well sorry to lead you down the primrose path here... but there isn’t really a conclusion to be made here, sadly.

The Renegade was either nearing the limits of what it can do, or nearing the limits of what its driver could do. Maybe a little bit of both. After the trip we noticed the Toaster’s ground clearance was severely reduced (to the point I was concerned it had collapsed) by having 200+ pounds of crap in the back… mostly booze... and snacks. Unloaded, I think it would not have had any of the problems it encountered. Problematic, but the Renegade is the most mall-wheel-drive of the three. That said, the Renegade’s traction control is by far the most advanced of the three and helped him get out of a couple of situations where we both got stuck (at the ORV park). Angry weedeater mode FTW.

The XTerra encountered no problems and just sort of drove about. It was the only car that had 2-way radio problems, even when the radios were swapped around. No idea what that was all about. It has its quirks but is very good.

The Disco survived, which is more than any of us expected. Aside from not really liking 3 rd gear in low range, it had no problems and finished the route without complaint. Despite not being a “proper” Land Rover, you can really tell it will go pretty much anywhere.

So… I guess everyone wins?

What do you guys think?

ThePlasticOne - no diggities expressed nor implied. > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 11:30

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I’m impressed that he was able to get a manual PRO-4X in that fantastic blue. Every time I looked at the catalogs for the final years of the Xterra, the manual PRO-4X pretty much only came in black or white from factory.

I believe some Xterra hackers have figured out ways to rewire their lockers/buttons so they could engage on demand. It should just be a signal wire or relay telling the locker it’s okay to do its thing. Similarly, there have been hacks to free up access to the roof lights without high beams and other things like that.

What kind of radios do you guys use? I have a Midland 75-822 CB in mobile configuration (i.e., battery pack and on-board antenna) and I experience a pretty weak signal inside the vehicle, so eventually I’m gonna have to get the real antenna wired up.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 11:33

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great write up. I smile every time I see that Jeep.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > ThePlasticOne - no diggities expressed nor implied. 04/12/2018 at 11:37

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Cool, I’ll pass those mods along!

We use Baofeng UV-82L radios with uprated antennas, programmed to use FRS/GMRS channels. We can get about a half mile of range in urban conditions and a little better out in BFE. There are some legal concerns with them, namely you need a licence to use full power, but other than that we’ve been mostly happy with them. Can’t argue with the price anyway.

adamftw > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 11:43

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Man up and chop that bumper and get rid of the steps! Get the floppy Disco mudflaps that thing SHOULD have and use those instead. It looks SO much better with the trimmed bumper.

:thumbsup:

benjrblant > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 11:49

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There are some legal concerns with them, namely you need a licence to use full power,

Nay, you need a license to transmit on amateur frequencies at all. Period. Any transmissions on amateur frequencies by an unlicensed operator that is not present at a “field day” with a licensed operator is illegal.

That’s covered in the, uh, *cough cough* licensing exam. (;

benjrblant > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 11:51

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Those three make for a sweet lineup. Zero, one, and two solid axles spanning two decades of automotive design, each with its own features and quirks. Pretty rad!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:03

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I like it when something like the Renegade is actually driven off road, these situations push the vehicle to it’s absolute limits. FWIW I did the white rim trail in Utah in a Subaru Outback, it made it with some superficial scratches and dents on the exhaust system. also broke the front fog lights.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > benjrblant 04/12/2018 at 12:05

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Well... sort of yes. We transmit only on channels 1-7, which are shared by GMRS and FRS. FRS from the FCC website:

This means an individual license is not required to operate an FRS radio provide you comply with the rules.

But is limited to 2W. Our radios have low TX mode, which is compliant with that.. to my knowledge. The issues would be if we were transmitting at 5W.

We go through a surprising amount of effort to ensure that all our activities are mostly legal. We even purchased fishing licences for the last trip as they were technically required to be on the land we were on. That said, we should probably re-brush up on the FCC rules to make sure we don’t get in trouble. As a former HAM operator I realize the FCC doesn’t fuck around and I’d rather not be the fox in a fox hunt.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:05

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I’m surprised at how competent the Renegade is. It’s too bad they don’t marry the higher powered engine with the 6MT.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 04/12/2018 at 12:10

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YES! I 100% agree with this. Also you can’t have the Trailhawk with the 6MT. I sort of get why this is (the automatic is the secret sauce in the Trailhawk) but it still annoys me.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:12

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To be fair, for around $500 you can get an HD winch bumper. Looks cooler, is more durable and offers better utility. Great write up!

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:13

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If they put a manual in with the Trailhawk, they have to put some form of proper hardware like a range selector or diff locker and that might pull away sales from the legendary Wrangler.

Marketing department back at it again

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > adamftw 04/12/2018 at 12:17

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Uuuuugh I know. By nature I am a stock guy. I like my cars visually stock... and usually mechanically too. Getting into off-roading/ overlanding this is an unpopular stance and I get why. The Disco is in line to get some tasteful upgrades in the near future. (Yours looks awesome, BTW)

I don’t think I am ready to pull the trigger on a bumper mod or replacement though. The bumper is OEM and less than four months old (neighbor backed into me), so I’d be inclined to sell it rather than mod it, but I haven’t given it a ton of thought/ research yet.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 04/12/2018 at 12:19

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Interesting! I haven’t seen much of anything offered for the D2 for under $800, usually tipping well over $1k.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:21

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https://www.lucky8llc.com/collections/bumpers-2/products/discovery-2-front-winch-bumper-steel-heavy-duty

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > benjrblant 04/12/2018 at 12:24

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Truthy moment: I hadn’t realized the Xterra had independent front until you made this comment. Honestly you wouldn’t know based on how well it did on the trail.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 04/12/2018 at 12:28

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Ahh well there you have it! Having just found this one , they look really similar. I might pester them to see if they have better pictures... because that one isn’t doing it much justice.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:32

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They should, good bunch of guys. Also if your sway bars need new bushings and links...

https://www.lucky8llc.com/products/lucky8-discovery-2-sway-bar-disconects

Just say’n lol.

Long-Voyager > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:40

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Damn, why wasn’t I invited:

HammerheadFistpunch > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 12:48

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Not really surprised with the renegade, I would bet if you did a detailed inventory of mods/cargo you would find it was 60-70% payload max. Still, it has more payload than a JK rubicon, so it’s got that going for it.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Long-Voyager 04/12/2018 at 12:55

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I seriously <3 offroad vans.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 04/12/2018 at 12:55

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I looked at those but it wasn’t clear to me that they’d work on my non-lifted D2. Maybe next time.

Lucky8 earned massive points with me when they let me customize their HG kit when the AB kit let me down.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 04/12/2018 at 12:57

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Yeah, I think we’ll want to load it differently next time if he doesn’t get a lift kit between now and then. He is thinking another 0.5" (on top of the stock Trailhawk lift) will get him where he wants to be.

Oh hey, so can I take this as an opportunity to request authorship on O&E? I promise to behave!

HammerheadFistpunch > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 13:00

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I was wondering why you didn’t have it. Consider it done.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 04/12/2018 at 13:04

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Thanks! Any rules I should be aware of?

HammerheadFistpunch > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 13:15

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Its less regulated than oppo for rules but more is expected of individual authors to self govern. Its not been a problem to date.

benjrblant > HammerheadFistpunch 04/12/2018 at 13:20

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Its not been a problem to date.

Cause everybody’s already been banhammered!

I kid, I kid.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 13:21

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I’ve gone wheeling with them on more than one occasion and my buddy manages their social media, but his employee discount sucks so I told him he was dead to me lol.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 14:02

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What a great spec on that Xterra!

Kar Wai Wong > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 14:11

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Since when was the Discovery not a “proper” Land Rover?

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Kar Wai Wong 04/12/2018 at 14:16

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Yeah. I could have worded that better. It is a “proper” Land Rover... just not a Range Rover. I was trying to be humble! I’ve never seen a Disco 2 and a Range Rover from the same year compared but just assumed the RR was more capable. I’d read the hell out of that article!

Kar Wai Wong > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 14:23

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So a Land Rover Discovery is not as Land Rover as a Range Rover. :) Where does that leave the Defenders?

weasel the great (not actually all that great) > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 15:09

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I owned a 2007 Xterra Off-Road not too long ago, and I agree that the rear diff lock is really wonky. There is a simple schematic floating around on the net that will show you how to you re-wire a connector under the dash so that you can override those lockouts. I did it to mine, and I was able to pop the locker on even in 2HI. It won’t unlock until you tell it to, speed/t-case position be damned. It’s a great mod!

CannedWombat > ThePlasticOne - no diggities expressed nor implied. 04/12/2018 at 15:35

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As a proud owner of a manual 2015 XTerra Pro 4x (whatever the called dark red that year), I completely agree with the “it just does it” remark. I’ve taken it up some gnarly forest service roads (completely stock) and it hasn’t flinched. One these days I’ll get the proper accessories and take her down to Utah.

The traction control can be obnoxious, especially for a manual. I’ve been curious why it is disabled in 4 Lo. Too much potential strain on the diffs?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 15:41

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Sounds like a lot of fun. Also great writing style - eloquent without feeling forced.

How much distance did you cover off-road on this trip? Never been on an off-road adventure but sounds like a lot of fun - I’ve always wondered if it’s mostly just regular camping type stuff with a bit of driving around at a dedicated “off-road park”? Or is it truly a case of getting off the beaten path and finding your destination (obviously legally, on designated trails/dirt roads)? Both sound like a ton of fun, latter seems to bring with it a bigger sense of adventure though.

Long-Voyager > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 16:06

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It does very well for only being FWD. Traction has never really been an issue with the Grabbers on it, clearance is the only place I’ve ever had an issue. She’ll drag her bottom through the mud and never think twice though. It’s a ton of fun taking a minivan on trails some 4x4 guys shy away from ;)

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 04/12/2018 at 16:11

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Thanks! You could do the trip either way. The first one we did , we were driving from point A to point B and using dirt and “unimproved” roads as much as possible. This we planned using google maps and some NPS maps. This one was about 1400 miles, some of which was very intense offroading. The trip was about 17 days, but we were buying cars at the beginning so not all of that was driving.

This one, the Oklahoma Adventure Trail , was planned out some bike enthusiasts who made it available to the general public and is estimated to be about 70% dirt roads. We used CalTOPO’s website to tweak the route to our purposes. The whole route was about 1800 - 2000 miles. We did it in 2 parts at about 9 days total.

We didn’t actually camp on either of them. The days tend to be long and the thought of having to setup a campsite at the end was... unappealing. We’ll usually snag a cabin or motel, as available. Requires a little more planning, but well worth it.

Logging roads, mining roads, and farm tracks are your friends as are national and state parks, which frequently have unimproved roads if you get even slightly off the main route.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 16:42

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That sounds amazing, thanks for sharing!

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 18:20

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The lineup is a perfect demonstration of how off road vehicles have changed over the last 25 years (yes I know the cars aren’t that old but at least one of the designs is!). And how they’ve done so without entirely compromising their core competency whilst at the same time become more practical for daily real world on road use.

The D2 is a real Land Rover by the way. It was a fancy Defender with an air suspension option. And just as capable off road as a contemporary Range.

shop-teacher > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/12/2018 at 18:42

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Sounds like everyone wins to me!

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > CannedWombat 04/13/2018 at 00:00

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I figured maybe too much for the clutch? Or maybe it isn’t smart enough to not fight with the diff lock?

Rufant > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/13/2018 at 01:11

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Nah, I like the stock approach. Especially at the start. I took my old Range Rover everywhere, and at the start it was totally stock, like road tyres stock.

https://overland.kinja.com/travels-with-rangie-as-it-s-the-range-rovers-45th-birth-1712884782

Even at the end it still looked stock. I made many mods but didn’t really change the fundamentals. Different airbags, dampers, mods to air suspension to lock individual bags off and inflate separately. Rovers are pretty good straight out of the box in terms of technical ability.

Better to spend your money getting out exploring imo (as you are!), also mods can just make it all too easy. Where’s the adventure in that?

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Rufant 04/13/2018 at 09:39

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Thanks! Glad there is at least one other stock offroader around haha.

Downside is your comment accomplished two things: (1) Now I kinda want a RR too, but I imagine owning two Land Rovers, an Alfa, a Saab, and a Volvo all a the same time would be grounds for an involuntary psychiatric hold and (2) Instead of spending money on a roof rack or offroad bumpers, now I’m eyeing what it would take to reinstate the rear air suspension...

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 04/13/2018 at 11:09

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This sparked a lively discussion at dinner last night haha. The Renegade’s owner, George, completely agrees with you but would much rather it have a larger gas tank and more power before getting a manual option and 2-speed transfer case.

I’m not sure the Renegade would chip away at the Wrangler much, if at all, if it were beefier. I think people who want a Wrangler will still buy the Wrangler, which seems like it will always be the flagship. However, to keep the accountants and marketing department happy, my vote is to improve the automatic transmission first, then bigger gas tank, then more power. I see no reason this car need three (3!!!!) overdrive gears, especially when it almost never shifts into 9th. You could make 1-3 much shorter to get something similar to low range and not sacrifice any livability. It does mean you still wouldn’t be able to get the Trailhawk in manual though...

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/13/2018 at 15:26

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Giving the Renegade a few more ponies under the hood would make it far more appealing, especially if those power gains could also be conferred to the smaller displacement motor.

Also, three overdrive gears? Make one of them a shorter version of what second gear is to allow for more of a crawl and make first gear even shorter for when you really need to put some serious power down.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 04/13/2018 at 15:49

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Agreed. As is it starts in 2nd and never goes into 9th, even at 80 on the highway.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/13/2018 at 15:50

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At that point just downgrade to a 7-speed and save both money and weight

Rufant > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/13/2018 at 19:25

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There was time I had the Range Rover, a 1965 Ford Anglia, two BMW’s both 1987, and 2001 Ford Mondeo ST24 (Ford Contour over there I think). That’s when I decided I needed maybe not so many cars and maybe at least one that didn’t need fixing most of the time.

Now it’s the Land Cruiser, the 65 Ford and the two Bimmers. Plus a company VW van for work, which to be honest is just about the best thing a car guy can have, a company car. It relieves all the interesting stuff of having to be merely transport.

DrZ > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/19/2018 at 16:28

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Disco Inferno FTW! :)

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > DrZ 04/19/2018 at 17:30

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How was the white Discovery?

DrZ > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/20/2018 at 08:09

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Picking it up this afternoon!! :)